Wednesday, August 10, 2005

Hold anonymous posters accountable for their actions

From Anonymous:

Doug:

Please post this comment from the http://lanl-the-real-story.blogspot.com/2005/08/two-los-alamos-lab-workers-inhale.html post at the top of the blog. There needs to be some way to hold anonymous posters accountable for their actions, and I believe that it is time to start, beginning with whomever posted the referenced bit of bile, described below.

Thanks, and keep up the good work.


________________________________________________
There has been one recent poster of anonymous comments on this thread who has been particularly malicious and cowardly, attacking Todd Kaupilla, who, now that he is dead, cannot defend himself.

I requested that Doug delete the comments, but for the record,

1. Todd died of a massive pancreatic hemorrhage.
2. Stress may have been a factor.
3. Alcohol was not a factor.
4. Attempts at character assassination of this type are particularly venal.

I will be attempting to find out who you are, so that I can expose you for the person you are. You stepped over the bounds; we will now find out who you are, and then we will let every person who reads this blog know who you are. We will, via the blog, announce who you work for, and how you used government equipment to perform a base, cowardly attempt at inflicting further pain on the family of Todd Kaupilla. We will make sure that your supervisor is aware of your cowardly behavior. If you are married, we will make sure that your spouse knows what you did. We will teach you the price of irresponsible behavior. We will be requesting that LANL review the logs of IP traffic. We will ask them to search for the string "Hey I would not do that. Look what drinking did to Tod K.", and when they have found the LANL host that the message orinated from, we will request that disciplinary actions be taken against you.

You can run, but you cannot hide.

Comments:
I agree with the poster: it is time to start holding anonymous posters accountable. In that regard, I will supply the original anonymous comment, complete with time-stamp, in the hopes that this will assist in tracking down who the person is. That the comment was made is bad enough. That it was apparently made from a LANL computer is even worse.

The post is listed below.

--Doug

_________________________

8:52 AM poster.

Hey I would not do that. Look what drinking did to Tod K.

--
Posted by Anonymous to LANL: The Real Story at 8/10/2005 10:43:56 AM
 
I'll bet there is one particular anonymous coward out there who doesn't sleep well tonight.
 
This is an interesting proposition for the blog. Who decides who can or cannot be defamed? I agree that the drinking post crossed the line, but what about others? What about people like Gary Stradling, who have had to put up with some genuinely vile slander here because they had the temerity to challenge the prevailing wisdom on this blog? (And, before you all start on anonymous me, I don't agree with everything he says. I do, however, think he has a clearer idea of the impacts that the events this blog was intended to address have had on LANL's ability to survive in Congress and DOE)
I think it's perfectly appropriate to leave such tasteless comments as 10:46's up for public critisism, but the witch hunt is going too far.
 
8/10/2005 03:50:34 PM said:

"This is an interesting proposition for the blog. Who decides who can or cannot be defamed? I agree that the drinking post crossed the line, but what about others?...
I think it's perfectly appropriate to leave such tasteless comments as 10:46's up for public critisism, but the witch hunt is going too far."

How can you say that? No one has said something like that about Gary, and if they did he is perfectly capable of defending himself. Todd is dead, but his family is left to suffer on. The person who defamed Todd should be punished for the pain Todd's family suffered, and you should think twice before you open your mouth.
 
I took some time to think before letting my comment post, but I stand with what I said. Character assassination looks bad on anyone, whether they're attacking Todd or Gary. The comment made about Todd was ignorant, mean-spirited, and misinformed (if not deliberately inaccurate), but it wasn't half as pathetically mean-spirited as many of the comments I've seen about Gary. If standards of conduct are going to be enforced on this blog, they need to be enforced equally. Whether you agree with Gary - or, for that matter, anyone else who dares to challenge the assumptions made on this blog - or not, he deserves the same protection that you would give Todd (if not more, because he is providing a rare counterpoint to the normal posts here). His dissent should not be punished any more than Doug's, yours, or anyone else who posts against LANL management.
 
Doug--

I am not a pathologist, I don't think you are either.

The original poster, nor the poster who objected offered any data, a pathologist's report, nor any credentials to support or refute the claim.

It is slander only if the statement is not true, and conversely it is not slander if the statement made is true.

For you to participate in the proposed witch hunt poisons the blog as a place where people can express themselves within the blog's rules of conduct freely without fear of reprisals, beyond having their posts deleted when they are inappropriate.

You and other posters don't like what one individual has to say, but do not likely know for a fact it is true or not. Regardless, you are offering to track down that individual and help damage his or her Laboratory career.

Now, before the blog, the Newsbulletin was the primary outlet for Laboratory community discussion, but if some individuals with power at the Laboratory didn't like what one had to say there, they would track them down and damage their Laboratory career.

I submit you have become that which you abhored.

The blog is poisoned.
 
Anonymity is a privilege, not a right. When it is abused, there should be consequences. Unfortunately, to date there have been no consequences when an anonymous poster abused his privilege by using that mechanism simply to spew poison.

Today is a clear example of an abuse of the the privilege of posting anonymously to this blog. Today, for a change, there may be a consequence. This anonymous poster may have (deserves to have, in my opinion) his/her anonymity ripped away. The slow poisoning of this blog has been performed by venomous anonymous posters such as this one.

We are all accountable for our words and our behavior, even when posting anonymously on LANL, The Real Story.

--Doug
 
8/10/2005 04:35:50 PM said:
"I took some time to think before letting my comment post, but I stand with what I said. Character assassination looks bad on anyone, whether they're attacking Todd or Gary."

You got that right, but when did anyone accuse Gary of having an alcohol problem? When did anyone show any proof that Todd had one? I never saw any mention of the question. How can your accusation against Todd be less than half as mean spirited as those made against Gary?

8/10/2005 04:35:50 PM went on to say:
"The comment made about Todd was ignorant, mean-spirited, and misinformed (if not deliberately inaccurate), but it wasn't half as pathetically mean-spirited as many of the comments I've seen about Gary."

Are you apologizing for the comment?

And then 8/10/2005 04:35:50 PM said:
"Whether you agree with Gary - or, for that matter, anyone else who dares to challenge the assumptions made on this blog - or not, he deserves the same protection that you would give Todd (if not more, because he is providing a rare counterpoint to the normal posts here)."

Why should I protect a live persons reputation more than one of a dead person who cannot defend himself? You make no sense.
 
FYI- At the time of Todd's death, I was curious about just what a "pancreatic hemorage" was. This is a typical Google result. It clearly indicates a high degree of ambiguity about the root cause of such a death.
I can relate that having known Todd for nearly 20 years, and having seen him struggle against the Laboratory's (mis)management of this situation, stress was obviously a factor.

Pancreatitis was first documented in the medical literature in 1788, Oves 200 years later, we still don't know exactly why it occurs, but we've identified many possible triggers. An acute attack can be caused by:

* obstruction of the pancreatic ducts (for example, because of biary stones, bile asis, or gallstones)

* biliary trace disease

* the toxic effects of alcohol and certain drugs, such as glucocorticoids, sulfonamides, chlorothiazide, azathioprine, and didanosine (ddl)

* reflux ofduo contents into the pancatic duct

* transient obstruction of the common bile duct by gallstones located near the pancreatic duct's orifice. Gallstones can intensify pancreatic pain and contribute to acute attacks.

* trauma to the pancreas, either from abdominal injuries or surgery. For example, acute pancreatis:can be a complication of endoscopic retrograde cholangiopancreatograpfiy,

The causes of chronic pancreatitis a more insidious. Possibilities include heavy alcohol consumption (a factor in more than hlf of cases), obstruction of the pancreatic duct cawed by posttraumatic ductal strictures, pseudocysts, mechanical or structural changes of the pancreaticduct sphincter, and panceatic tumors. Less-commn causes include hyperparathyroidism, peptic ulcer disease, and cystic fibrosis. It may also occur as a hereditary disease.

-Scott
 
To Doug at 6:10 pm:

"Anonymity is a privilege, not a right"

No, it IS a right if you believe in the basic right to privacy. Of course, it may not be considered a "right" in the context of your blog - that is YOUR right. Make the difference clear.
 
I think most decent people reading this blog realize that many unkind things have been said about people who are named, living and passed on. This is not appropriate and not necessary. It is at the least dishonorable when done anonymously. There may be new legal grounds being set for libel on public blogs where the "anon" authors may be determined by technical means. Everyone should cool their jets and get a grip before too long here.
 
To 8/10/2005 08:30:16 PM:

I'll spell it out for you: if you step over the line, your anonymous privileges are at risk.

No more free ride.

Responsibility is now a requirement, not a request.

Those who choose to attempt to use the ammenity of anonymous posting that is offered on this blog to spew venom, to irresponsibly defame others, or in a like fashion choose to be non-productive members of this particular blog community run the risk of having their true identities exposed.

I not sure I can say it any simpler than that, but I'll try: don't say anything anonymously on this blog that you would not say as yourself, were you not, for what ever reasons, too afraid to use your own identity.

Anonymous postings were offered on this blog to prevent LANL staff from being retaliated against for having pointed out problems at LANL. It was not a free ticket to post malicious, mean-spirited, slander about people who work (or worked, in the case of Todd Kaupilla) at LANL.

--Doug
 
Complaining about LANL's work environment and slandering Tod simply can not be compared.
 


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